B9s MOST OVER THREAD

General discussion, shows, and everything else.

Postby Tomas-2 » Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:30 pm

I've been talking to Kev about it this morning but Drew hit it dead on the head. You can't think of that era of shooter business without thinking of MiSu as one of those guys. As well as the fact he can be this absolute monster invader heel guy but wrestle a funny match in an empty Tokyo Dome. I obviously think guys like Hayabusa, Akiyama, and Taue deserve to be in the HOF but that's just a matter of opinion I suppose. I wouldn't sit here and debate oh I think MiSu is better than those 3 or more important, but the facts are behind his name. He just isn't some dude who's hung around for a long time, he's got a lot of shit behind him. I'm happy MiSu got in and think its a proper fit.
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Postby Cryinheart » Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:30 pm

against my better judgement, I started a best match ever project rewatch

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
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Postby Drew Wardlaw » Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:01 pm

Kevin how’d you compile the list?
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Postby Cryinheart » Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:10 pm

so when I get ideas like this, I go crazy scouring cagematch, best match ever lists, my previous lists, etc. I try to just find whatever and if it looks good, I enter it in. Also open to any other ideas if it isn't listed in there, cagematch has a lot more stuff from recent years than older ones so it's easier to dump in a lot of that stuff. I tried to represent bits from any team period/all over. Then I randomize it, I like watching stuff on random rather than chronologically or something.

The list is wayyyyyyy too long and I will never finish it but whatever lmao
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Postby Drew Wardlaw » Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:46 pm

It’s a cool project either way. Very curious to see how you’re rankings turn out.
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Postby 3 1/2 » Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:18 pm

Drew, you came up with some good points I didn’t consider. I think it really depends on where you stand on Pancrase as a shoot/work/proto mma company. I can also see an argument for him based on in ring and maybe influence as being one of the biggest names to popularize that style. Do you guys think New Japan becoming more available to the west especially over the last year had any influence on the voting as opposed to other years?

Also, #Akiyama2018
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Postby Lobsterdog » Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:27 pm

Its weird to me that Styles went from "fell off the ballot" to HOF in 2 years.
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Postby BRICK_FLAIR » Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:29 pm

It is insane to me that Akiyama is even up for debate for people.maybe it's just me and where I started with watching honorable pyuroreesu, but he always seemed like he should be right up there with the Kobashis and Kawadas. Then again, one of the 4 pillars is up for debate too, sooo
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Postby Cryinheart » Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:32 pm

and Taue just seems like a firm no, too. Don't get it.

Dennis Rodman was a no question Hall of Famer. Taue comes off as the same type to me.
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Postby Drew Wardlaw » Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:47 pm

3 1/2 wrote:Drew, you came up with some good points I didn’t consider. I think it really depends on where you stand on Pancrase as a shoot/work/proto mma company. I can also see an argument for him based on in ring and maybe influence as being one of the biggest names to popularize that style. Do you guys think New Japan becoming more available to the west especially over the last year had any influence on the voting as opposed to other years?

Also, #Akiyama2018

I think absolutely Suzuki getting in is a result of New Japan’s availability, if for no other reason than the easy access to footage. He’s got such an aura that presumably people see him and want to seek out more from his career and between NJPW World and RealHero there’s tons of stuff available.
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Postby DryBones » Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:02 pm

Wait how is Taue not in the HOF?
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Postby Lobsterdog » Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:03 pm

MiSu is a HOFer based on his theme alone. Dont @ me.
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Postby Tomas-2 » Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:47 pm

BRICK_FLAIR wrote:It is insane to me that Akiyama is even up for debate for people.maybe it's just me and where I started with watching honorable pyuroreesu, but he always seemed like he should be right up there with the Kobashis and Kawadas. Then again, one of the 4 pillars is up for debate too, sooo


I've said this for as long as I've known Kevin. His Kings Road run ALONE imo is HOF worthy not to mention how great he was at times in NOAH and THEN at his age CURRENTLY he can still go at a high level. All the big names from King's Road era are no brainer but here we are again, somehow debating HOW GREAT TAUE IS WHEN HE WAS SO FUCKING IMPORTANT TO THE FABRIC OF IT ALL!!!
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Postby skeephop » Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:58 pm

H20 booked my dream match

Image
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Postby Cryinheart » Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:42 pm

DryBones wrote:Wait how is Taue not in the HOF?

In general he’s seen as the lesser guy in all of those matches, the thinking being the very good all star is not HOF worthy. If I had a vote I’d vote for him no question but he doesn’t seem like a guy who would ever get in. I’d absolutely vote Akiyama and Taue, probably CIMA.
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Postby Last Rites » Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:56 pm

Image
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Postby WeGotTheJazz » Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:07 pm

skeephop wrote:H20 booked my dream match

Image


lol
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Postby PancakesMidwest » Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:16 pm

Cryinheart wrote:against my better judgement, I started a best match ever project rewatch

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

Nice!

PS Is it a common thing to care about crowd draw that much lol? I've been noticing it on Twitter recently and some people are basing whether or not they like certain wrestlers or if they're HOF-worthy off of that and it's crazy to me. I guess if you want to be technical, a cheering sold out Tokyo Dome is going to raise the vibe more than 125 in a gym. Pretty subjective, but help me understand!
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Postby BRICK_FLAIR » Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:21 pm

Drawing power is the closest thing to an objective criteria you can find when judging wrestling, and is an actual criteria for the WONHOF.
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Postby skeephop » Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:25 pm

I think it comes from Meltzer being analytical and comparing guys and eras and stuff. But he’s all about business and numbers. Also if a guy draws more, he will last longer because people will always want to book him. But that shit gets so annoying sometimes. Like all the constant fighting about Mania attendance on WOR. So dumb. As far as personal enjoyment, idk, I grew up on IWA tapes where it was literally 20 people in the crowd watching Punk vs Hero and shit. And those matches ruled. And like, idk what other ppl think, but it’s not like good wrestling really happens anymore in WWE which has the biggest crowds.
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Postby ButtDan316 » Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:32 pm

Fans who base their preferences off of what draws are dumb. But for a HOF drawing power should definitely be a main determinant.
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Postby 3 1/2 » Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:46 pm

I’ve been wondering for awhile how drawing power is and will be measured in modern day WWE. The only real draws for years has been Cena and the brand itself.
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Postby Lobsterdog » Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:51 pm

3 1/2 wrote:I’ve been wondering for awhile how drawing power is and will be measured in modern day WWE. The only real draws for years has been Cena and the brand itself.

Merch sales.
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Postby Drew Wardlaw » Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:20 pm

ive gotten into a couple drawing discussions over the past week. Not on twitter, thankfully, and they’ve both been about Suzuki’s (Hideki and Minoru), and the more I think and talk about it the more I realize you can’t purely look at attendance numbers to determine if someone is a draw or not. Case in point, Hideki Suzuki. The person I was talking to was saying what a failure his run as Strong champ has been due to poor attendance numbers. That’s only part of the picture though, because booking, economic factors, scheduling, position of death matches, etc all play important roles in attendance figures and it’s an over-simplification imo to say he is or isn’t failing when only looking at raw data like that. It’s a similar position with Minoru Suzuki, DDT Peter Pan attendance over the past few years, on and on.

I think for something like WON HOF it absolutely matters and it is possible to determine objectively to determine if someone is a draw or not, but I think it’s way more complicated than idiots like us can extrapolate. I think at best these figures can be used for very general trends over a period of time, but barely.

I haven’t been huge on talking “drawing power” in the past but man I’m totally done with it now, after reading twitter and talking about it with people. None of us really know what we’re talking about even if we have a podcast or run a website, we’re all just dumb wrestling fans and topics like that totally suck the fun out of it.
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Postby Van-Isle Keith » Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:48 pm

watching tag league day10 right now and theres some good okada/naito interactions if you guys wanna build up the story. heel-okada laying waste to naito with those irish whips in to the rails the whole match

also, the "world tag league" tshirts all the young lions are wearing look sick
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Postby Tomas-2 » Fri Dec 01, 2017 7:57 am

Not to keep this drawing discussion up but I've personally never cared. I mean, I get it. I can see how people would judge a wrestler by it but to me it's a bit of an archaic mentality imo. Akiyama and Go I do believe are considered to be "lesser" or "failure" aces by the standards of what people consider to be a good ace because of how low numbers dipped or how they couldn't sustain and I get that it can be a slight towards some but to me it doesn't effect what's important which is the match quality. I feel like just about any wrestler has had low points in their career but guys like Akiyama, Taue, MiSu can't be considered failures or lackluster in any sense of the word. Guys like CIMA or hell in HARASHIMA (who I consider HoF worthy) shouldn't be judged because they've never filled up a Tokyo Dome. Their work and carrying of the company is just as important as anyone in modern wrestler. They're staples of their respected promotions and should be treated as such. I think one thing that gets lost in the endless voice of opinions, podcasts, and websites is that things should probably be looked at case by case. Comparing DDT numbers or something to that effect to WWE or even New Japan is dumb.

Just ate some pizza and Mountain Drew at 9am my bad boys I'm fired up
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Postby DryBones » Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:06 am

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Postby Drew Wardlaw » Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:07 am

Tomas-2 wrote:Just ate some pizza and Mountain Drew at 9am my bad boys I'm fired up

:smt004
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Postby 3 1/2 » Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:03 am

Go and Dino interacting is pretty goddamn entertaining.
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Postby skeephop » Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:41 am

nxt

Spoiler: show
– According to wrestlinginc.com, it appears that WWE is making a major change to the Takeover: Philly main event. At this week’s TV tapings, four matches were taped, they were Trent Seven vs. Killian Dain, Kassius Ohno vs. Johnny Gargano, Roderick Strong vs. Lars Sullivan and Adam Cole vs. Aleister Black. The winners of those matches then competed in a Fatal 4 Way with the winner being the #1 contender to Almas for Takeover. Johnny Gargano won that match as was scheduled to face Almas for the title at Takeover: Philly. But WWE has posted the following video, which makes it appear that major changes are coming.

#WWENXT GM @RealKingRegal has a huge announcement regarding #NXTChampion @AndradeCienWWE's challenger at #NXTTakeOver: Philadelphia! pic.twitter.com/Vwe6DlcND6

— WWE NXT (@WWENXT) December 1, 2017

Mention of the Kassius Ohno vs. Johnny Gargano is dropped, and the Velveteen Dream is now scheduled to face Ohno. This apparently means that WWE has changed direction and that they will have to tape a Kassius Ohno vs. Velveteen Dream match at the next tapings as well as the four-way match to set the top contender for Almas.



uhhhhh what?
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Postby ButtDan316 » Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:49 am

They’re probably gonna sell it like a Cinderella story.
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Postby DryBones » Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:57 am

Image
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Postby Marioisthereason » Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:14 pm

So we’re not going to see Ohno vs Gargano? Sucks because the spoilers made it out to be an amazing match

There’s also a report of Tommaso Ciampa coming back soon so maybe that has something to do with it
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Postby BRICK_FLAIR » Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:35 pm

The announcement doesn't mean a change or a replacement. For all we know there's a backstage segment that leads to what was taped.

If anything it actually makes more sense that way rather than a face vs face match happening without something setting it up first.
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Postby yiffcore » Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:30 pm

DryBones wrote:Image


Those are fucking awesome.
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Postby Depeche Mode » Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:56 pm

chuck and trent vs elgin and cobb in world tag league was cool. just crazy to see chuckie t chants in japan.
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Postby 3 1/2 » Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:00 pm

Jim Johnston released????
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Postby xchocolatesensationx » Fri Dec 01, 2017 4:21 pm

his contract wasnt renewed apparently which is a bummer. cfo$ has been putting out some solid themes though.
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Postby WeGotTheJazz » Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:04 pm

DryBones wrote:Image


These are all stupid and gay except for the bottom right.
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Postby ButtDan316 » Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:15 pm

So apparently a week from this Wednesday they're showing an NXT episode on USA as part of the Tribute to the Troops week.
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Postby gary from teen mom 2 » Fri Dec 01, 2017 7:22 pm

WeGotTheJazz wrote:
DryBones wrote:Image


These are all stupid and gay except for the bottom right.

These are awful
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Postby Van-Isle Keith » Fri Dec 01, 2017 7:24 pm

we all know shibata is raph
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Postby skeephop » Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:35 am

Johnston did literally every classic theme ever. Have those CFOS guys even made one good one? If you look at Johnston’s discography, he did all the classics. Austin.. Bret... Razor... Angle... Undertaker... Billy Gunn’s Ass Man. all the classics
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Postby BRICK_FLAIR » Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:09 am

The Authors of Pain theme rules
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Postby PancakesMidwest » Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:42 pm

Best HARASHIMA matches? Sadly, I've only watched the Takeshita one from '16?
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Postby Drew Wardlaw » Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:14 am

PancakesMidwest wrote:Best HARASHIMA matches? Sadly, I've only watched the Takeshita one from '16?

Just going off memory here so I don’t have a lot of dates, but....

Vs KUDO 5/31/15
Vs KUDO from a couple months ago
Vs Ibushi Peter Pan 2009
Vs Toru Owashi December 2006
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Postby Cryinheart » Sun Dec 03, 2017 3:50 am

vs Endo from earlier this year
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Postby spiderblood » Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:48 pm

I really want to watch wrestlekingdom live this year until I realized its on a Thursday night. What’s wrong with the Japanese? They can’t have ppvs on the weekend like the rest of the world?
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Postby gary from teen mom 2 » Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:45 pm

spiderblood wrote:I really want to watch wrestlekingdom live this year until I realized its on a Thursday night. What’s wrong with the Japanese? They can’t have ppvs on the weekend like the rest of the world?

They're mad retarded
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Postby Lobsterdog » Sun Dec 03, 2017 3:38 pm

the january 4th dome show is a tradition you fuckin heathen scum.
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